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	<title>Comments on: Staggering insight</title>
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	<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/</link>
	<description>Design and human behaviour</description>
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		<title>By: Matt Wardman</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-499116</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Wardman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-499116</guid>
		<description>The button being on the right on the second half of the crossing makes the girl face *away* from the traffic.

Not quite thoughtful enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The button being on the right on the second half of the crossing makes the girl face *away* from the traffic.</p>
<p>Not quite thoughtful enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Fay</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-470408</link>
		<dc:creator>Fay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-470408</guid>
		<description>Is there any evidence that making pedestrians face oncoming traffic actually makes things safer? Or is it just an assumption?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any evidence that making pedestrians face oncoming traffic actually makes things safer? Or is it just an assumption?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-423059</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-423059</guid>
		<description>[...] &#160; &#9632; Puede tambi&#233;n ser utilizado para &quot;redireccionamiento&quot; los usuarios, por ejemplo, se tambale&#243; los pasos de peatones garantizar que los usuarios se enfrentan al tr&#225;fico ... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &nbsp; &#9632; Puede tambi&eacute;n ser utilizado para &quot;redireccionamiento&quot; los usuarios, por ejemplo, se tambale&oacute; los pasos de peatones garantizar que los usuarios se enfrentan al tr&aacute;fico &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Design with Intent &#124; Architectural Lens: The Patterns</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-411555</link>
		<dc:creator>Design with Intent &#124; Architectural Lens: The Patterns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 07:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-411555</guid>
		<description>[...] ■ Can also be used to ‘funnel’ users, e.g. staggered pedestrian crossings making sure users face oncoming traffic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ■ Can also be used to ‘funnel’ users, e.g. staggered pedestrian crossings making sure users face oncoming traffic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Design with Intent &#124; frog design on Design with Intent</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-400922</link>
		<dc:creator>Design with Intent &#124; frog design on Design with Intent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-400922</guid>
		<description>[...] referred to as ‘choice editing’, a phrase which provokes substantial reactance!) If you design a pedestrian crossing to guide pedestrians to make eye contact with drivers, you’ve privileged drivers over pedestrians and reinforced the hegemony of the motor car. If you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] referred to as ‘choice editing’, a phrase which provokes substantial reactance!) If you design a pedestrian crossing to guide pedestrians to make eye contact with drivers, you’ve privileged drivers over pedestrians and reinforced the hegemony of the motor car. If you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-332314</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-332314</guid>
		<description>Since you posted this I&#039;ve started to take a closer look at these crossings.  The &#039;correct&#039; orientation is by no means always followed, and I&#039;ve noticed several which are the wrong way round.  For example there is a whole intersection with the North Circular next to Wembley Stadium where as far as I can tell all of the crossings are the wrong way round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you posted this I&#8217;ve started to take a closer look at these crossings.  The &#8216;correct&#8217; orientation is by no means always followed, and I&#8217;ve noticed several which are the wrong way round.  For example there is a whole intersection with the North Circular next to Wembley Stadium where as far as I can tell all of the crossings are the wrong way round.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-329590</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-329590</guid>
		<description>The other day a crossing like this caught my eye in San Francisco.

But it&#039;s staggered in the opposite manner. The offset is to the left as you cross the street (as in your example), but the far lane of traffic moves from right to left, putting the pedestrian&#039;s back to oncoming traffic as they shift toward the 2nd half of the crossing. 

From a pedestrian perspective, the stagger seemed designed to prevent people riding their bikes or skating across the crosswalk, or generally rushing out into oncoming traffic. You could stagger the crossing in either direction to get that effect. So why not stagger toward oncoming traffic? 

It occurred to me that from a vehicular perspective offseting against the flow of traffic prevents drivers from using that gap in the median as an impromptu turning lane. In the photo you posted, I think they&#039;ve installed yellow pillars to prevent that. They also retain most of the median. In San Francisco, the crossing is at pavement level and although it&#039;d be a tight fit for anything other than a motorcycle or smart car, a U-turn would be possible if the stagger weren&#039;t sharply against the flow of traffic.

Just seemed like an interesting counterexample.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other day a crossing like this caught my eye in San Francisco.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s staggered in the opposite manner. The offset is to the left as you cross the street (as in your example), but the far lane of traffic moves from right to left, putting the pedestrian&#8217;s back to oncoming traffic as they shift toward the 2nd half of the crossing. </p>
<p>From a pedestrian perspective, the stagger seemed designed to prevent people riding their bikes or skating across the crosswalk, or generally rushing out into oncoming traffic. You could stagger the crossing in either direction to get that effect. So why not stagger toward oncoming traffic? </p>
<p>It occurred to me that from a vehicular perspective offseting against the flow of traffic prevents drivers from using that gap in the median as an impromptu turning lane. In the photo you posted, I think they&#8217;ve installed yellow pillars to prevent that. They also retain most of the median. In San Francisco, the crossing is at pavement level and although it&#8217;d be a tight fit for anything other than a motorcycle or smart car, a U-turn would be possible if the stagger weren&#8217;t sharply against the flow of traffic.</p>
<p>Just seemed like an interesting counterexample.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-329053</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-329053</guid>
		<description>I suppose the inverse of this would be a chicane that forced drivers to turn towards waiting pedestrians, forcing them to brake. This is a really, really bad idea:-) Which is a lesson - people&#039;s interests are rarely served by a move closer to equality that makes the failure-modes more dangerous and unforgiving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose the inverse of this would be a chicane that forced drivers to turn towards waiting pedestrians, forcing them to brake. This is a really, really bad idea:-) Which is a lesson &#8211; people&#8217;s interests are rarely served by a move closer to equality that makes the failure-modes more dangerous and unforgiving.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Short</title>
		<link>http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2009/01/05/staggering-insight/comment-page-1/#comment-328937</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/?p=456#comment-328937</guid>
		<description>All very interesting and good as far as it goes.

However, the &quot;sheep pen&quot; crossing is inherently a bad design for pedestrians and no amount of making it more &quot;thoughtful&quot; can hide the fact that most pedestrians will have to walk off their desire line to use it. They will have to walk double the length of the crossing out of their way if they&#039;re going the wrong way (ie. down to the start of the crossing, then all the way back along it or vice versa).

This seems to matter little when the crossing is relatively short, but when it&#039;s long it&#039;s a real problem that causes many pedestrians simply to circumvent the thing entirely and cross in a place which is presumably more dangerous and at which drivers aren&#039;t specifically alert to crossing pedestrians.

Imagine a crossroads that runs NS/WE. It has a 30 metre sheep pen on the southern approach road which reads from W to E, that is, it follows the desire line for pedestrians crossing from W to E by having its entrance on the W side of the road at the junction itself and its exit on the E side 30m S of the junction.

You can see a real one here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianshort/2307647900/

For pedestrians starting on the W side, the possibilities are:

- cross and continue E, walk 60m off desire line.
- cross and continue N, walk 60m off desire line.
- cross and continue S, on desire line.

For pedestrians starting on the E side at the junction, the possibilities assuming they&#039;re going to walk S to the start of the crossing are:

- cross and continue W, walk 60m off desire line.
- cross and continue S, walk 60m off desire line.
- cross and continue N, walk 60m off desire line.

For pedestrians starting on the E side of the junction but approaching from the S so that they meet the entrance to the crossing without having to walk out of their way:

- cross and continue N, on desire line.
- cross and continue S, not strictly on desire line but walking no further than if they had to walk to the junction for a safe direct crossing
- cross and continue W, on desire line.

Observing actual behaviour at these crossings tells us what we&#039;d expect: that most pedestrians coming from E to W at the junction choose to &quot;unsafely&quot; cross around the outside of the sheep pen barriers rather than take a 60m detour to use it &quot;correctly&quot;.

Moral: You can build a very inconvenient crossing for pedestrians in the name of safety but in the name of convenience most will completely ignore it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very interesting and good as far as it goes.</p>
<p>However, the &#8220;sheep pen&#8221; crossing is inherently a bad design for pedestrians and no amount of making it more &#8220;thoughtful&#8221; can hide the fact that most pedestrians will have to walk off their desire line to use it. They will have to walk double the length of the crossing out of their way if they&#8217;re going the wrong way (ie. down to the start of the crossing, then all the way back along it or vice versa).</p>
<p>This seems to matter little when the crossing is relatively short, but when it&#8217;s long it&#8217;s a real problem that causes many pedestrians simply to circumvent the thing entirely and cross in a place which is presumably more dangerous and at which drivers aren&#8217;t specifically alert to crossing pedestrians.</p>
<p>Imagine a crossroads that runs NS/WE. It has a 30 metre sheep pen on the southern approach road which reads from W to E, that is, it follows the desire line for pedestrians crossing from W to E by having its entrance on the W side of the road at the junction itself and its exit on the E side 30m S of the junction.</p>
<p>You can see a real one here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianshort/2307647900/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianshort/2307647900/</a></p>
<p>For pedestrians starting on the W side, the possibilities are:</p>
<p>- cross and continue E, walk 60m off desire line.<br />
- cross and continue N, walk 60m off desire line.<br />
- cross and continue S, on desire line.</p>
<p>For pedestrians starting on the E side at the junction, the possibilities assuming they&#8217;re going to walk S to the start of the crossing are:</p>
<p>- cross and continue W, walk 60m off desire line.<br />
- cross and continue S, walk 60m off desire line.<br />
- cross and continue N, walk 60m off desire line.</p>
<p>For pedestrians starting on the E side of the junction but approaching from the S so that they meet the entrance to the crossing without having to walk out of their way:</p>
<p>- cross and continue N, on desire line.<br />
- cross and continue S, not strictly on desire line but walking no further than if they had to walk to the junction for a safe direct crossing<br />
- cross and continue W, on desire line.</p>
<p>Observing actual behaviour at these crossings tells us what we&#8217;d expect: that most pedestrians coming from E to W at the junction choose to &#8220;unsafely&#8221; cross around the outside of the sheep pen barriers rather than take a 60m detour to use it &#8220;correctly&#8221;.</p>
<p>Moral: You can build a very inconvenient crossing for pedestrians in the name of safety but in the name of convenience most will completely ignore it.</p>
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